Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2

(anthropic.com)

504 points | by meetpateltech 1 hour ago

67 comments

  • skeledrew 1 hour ago
    Damn people were right about 5.5 being nerfed in preparation for a version release. This is not at all a good look.

    - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50422069

    • ariwilson 39 minutes ago
      I at least didn't see this. I had a baseline evaluation from before Nov 3 on Opus 5.5 medium, so I re-ran it this morning.

      Eval context: 30 bug fixes and features evaluated by tests the agent didn't see. Ran on Opus 5.5 at medium effort in Claude Code.

      20 of the tasks were last run on Nov 1, twice each. Nov 1 solved 36/40, and today solved 19/20. Thinking tokens per task were 0.95x Nov 1’s and output tokens 0.97x. The one significant change was speed: median time to first token decreased from 3.0s to 1.7s.

      Caveats: one run per task today, medium effort only.

      • drakythe 24 minutes ago
        If I read your results correct it solved 5% more problems and used up between 3-5% fewer tokens, with a faster response time?
        • ariwilson 16 minutes ago
          Correct. But the 5% more solves and 3-5% fewer tokens are within the noise of previous eval runs I've done on models. The faster response time is not.
          • Spivak 0 minutes ago
            Someone using an actual statistical test to quantify if there's actual measurable improvement?! An angel among men.
    • BryceEller 52 minutes ago
      I dunno there are some other nerf trackers that aren't showing a regression: https://github.com/ninjahawk/livenerf
      • swatcoder 25 minutes ago
        "Nerf tracking" is adversarial and exploratory. It's not something Anthropic wants anyone to do, and it's not something that the "nerf tracking" designers are necessarily doing in a foolproof way. Don't assume too much from them either way.
      • rybosworld 9 minutes ago
        These nerf trackers do not work. I wish people would stop posting them.

        They don't detect a quantized model until the quantization gets down to 4 bits or less.

        Humans absolutely do detect quantization well before 4 bits...

        Try it yourself if you want. Try a small local model, both quantized and not, and I would be very surprised if it isn't immediately obvious which is which.

      • yieldcrv 37 minutes ago
        Its incredibly easy to roll out a compute instance to X% of users, or route traffic between compute instances

        so not everyone will have the same experience. If I was saving on costs that would be the easiest way to do it without deploying, without any nefarious intent. The persons in charge of that likely don't even know about how individual users are impacted

        • cft 27 minutes ago
          The degradation only happens to some accounts but not to all.

          https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/s/64DXRERLyU

          It would be nice to know how they select. I max out my $200 subscription every week and I was selected. On Saturday, the Opus on my account that happened to be supervising a running live process, became unusable.

          • tmpz22 21 minutes ago
            It would be trivial for them to opt-out accounts that are doing benchmarking from a planned regression.

            I really really really do not trust companies on the verge of IPOing from goosing their numbers. Even if the lawyers are up their ass, the social pressures are more than enough to compel the behavior. For every good person willing to do the right thing even at the cost of a delayed career progression, there are 20 people willing to do anything not even for a dollar but for an "atta boy!" from the boss.

            • cft 15 minutes ago
              That's a major reason to use local models. Or open weights models on a trusted cloud provider. Even if they are way less capable, they're more predictable
      • scrlk 40 minutes ago
        Nothing stopping Anthropic (or other labs) from pulling a VW Dieselgate and ensuring that benchmarks are routed to a non-nerfed model.
      • fritzo 45 minutes ago
        That must be on anthropic's benchmaxxing CI test
        • chinathrow 42 minutes ago
          Nerfmaxxing.

          It probably need a whistleblower to uncover what they are doing.

    • kif 59 minutes ago
      I used to be skeptical of nerfing, but as of a week or so ago I've noticed a severe degradation of quality for GPT Astra. It struggled with very simple tasks, and it often failed to follow my instructions.
      • margalabargala 46 minutes ago
        I hear a lot of accusations of nerfing as in, saying that the model itself has been quantized.

        I doubt this is the case. I suspect all variation in quality and output can be explained in terms of prompt differences, and changing how much thinking happens at each level, as we see in the post above.

        • rybosworld 2 minutes ago
          Suppose a company has a limited amount of compute. What do they then do if peak demand exceeds what they can provide? They don't turn off people's access...

          And what about A/B testing? Anthropic doesn't even try to hide that they do this. Limited compute and A/B testing alone, would guarantee a nerfed experience some of the time. That is, you don't even need a nefarious reason.

          I consider it gas lighting to deny model nerfing.

        • serf 10 minutes ago
          it's easy to suspect the hosting companies trying to do what they can to reduce cost-to-host up until the very threshold of perceptibility, so it's an easy guess to say they're probably doing something that shifts performance up or down between version releases..

          but realistically I think you're right, it's prompt quality and the inherent non-determinism elements of LLMs showing up; when both of those things meet you get brain dead outputs.

          Everyone likes to shout "slot machines! non-determinism!" until it actually explains something, heh.

      • rubicon33 11 minutes ago
        YES. To the point that I literally stopped using it, and have moved BACK to Claud.

        This is getting ridiculous. The number of times I have switched from one model back to the other is crazy. I do not have any proof, so its quite possible I'm just delusional. AI psychosis? Either way, it FEELS like these models work really well for a while and then fall off. Switching to the latest model on the competitor always seems better, until it too seems to taper off. By then, a new model is usually available at the competitor, so I switch.

        Its possible there's no degradation at all and just a PERCEPTION of it. But to me the end user, it really doesn't matter.

      • Foobar8568 42 minutes ago
        Both Astra and Opus didn't really looked good for the last week or two.
      • redox99 57 minutes ago
        GPT Astra felt nerfed just days after it launched.
      • tamimio 40 minutes ago
        Sol been really bad in some basic stuff that I would remove it from frontier models entirely
      • redanddead 51 minutes ago
        why were you skeptical of other users?
        • brokensegue 44 minutes ago
          People are prone to seeing patterns in noise especially after suggestion. It's not hard to imagine someone concluding the model is nerfd after few bad responses in a row
          • hartator 37 minutes ago
            Why this won’t apply to you as well?
            • kasey_junk 6 minutes ago
              It could apply to me but I run evals every time someone at work complains about this and it’s never shown any more or less variance than regular usage. I don’t have statistical relevance with my evals but I do have a decent history with them.

              People seem to underestimate how high normal variance is with these tools.

            • serf 7 minutes ago
              i'm not parent, but to answer your snark : there are efforts a person can take to try to reduce things like suggestability in ones' own personality. Same as anything, the brain can be trained, thus it should go without saying that some of us react differently in the face of suggestion -- both for the better and the worse.
        • grey-area 7 minutes ago
          A growing percentage of the users on the internet are not human.
    • mariofdistrust 44 minutes ago
      idk, it hasn't felt nerfed at all to me, and it's not like i'm just doing trivial CRUD webapps either. opus 5.5 is very successfully porting my phone to postmarketos. claude just got the touchscreen up and working (and made a little program for me to test it, and it's legit).
    • espeed 21 minutes ago
      This happened last time too with Opus 5.5 (released September 22): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49789224
    • onlyrealcuzzo 32 minutes ago
      Benchmarks don't do a good job at capturing the difference in quality of frontier models over smaller models.

      Opus 5.5 was so good that if it wasn't nerfed - at least just looking at the benchmarks - the difference in cost here does not seem to justify using this for anything besides design and review.

      That's like maybe 1% of total token usage for SWE BUT a better design can have enormous benefits, so it's almost always worth using the best model for that.

    • stillpointlab 48 minutes ago
      I'm guilty of suspecting this.

      If this turns out to be accurate, I think that would be a pretty unethical thing for Anthropic. Even if it is just a "we had to allocate compute to this new model release".

      It should be fraud to swap out the model. We need a term for this, something like a bait-and-switch.

      • user43928 17 minutes ago
        I've been working with Opus 5.5 every day, probably around 10h on average, and I feel confident in saying that they did not replace anything.

        I'm a bit disappointed with how this nonsense is spread across HN today.

      • order-matters 30 minutes ago
        I believe fraud is a sufficient term. You claim to be selling X but you actually sold them Y. Bait and switch is a selling tactic to avoid fraud where they make you believe product is X and then when you go to buy they tell you X isnt available but they have Y. While also unethical, it is not fraud because they did tell you what it is you are buying before you buy it.

        if they just straight up dont sell you something you bought then its fraud.

        I think there is a ripe opportunity for expanding the definition of fraud to include changing the "ingredients" of a named product on the market. It is not limited here, we see it with food, and even in the medical field

        (I will die on the hill that medical fraud was committed when mRNA therapy was used as a treatment for covid and it was 'sold' to the public as a "vaccine" despite not being the same thing as any vaccine before it. The definition of vaccine was expanded to include it without sifficient public disclosure to warrant informed consent imo. This is not a statement about conspiracy or the efficacy of vaccines or a moral judgement on whether it was for the greater good or not.. it was simply an act of fraud that robbed the public of proper informed consent by making people believe it was X when it was really Y.)

        So yes, I think there is a large need for the public to at the very least put a strong handle on the ability to change what a product name means. It is a trivial problem to solve considering it is only a problem due fraud or fraud adjacent activities.

        heres the solution: You have your product name, and then any changes to it REQUIRE a new version name. Like how you have Coke and Diet Coke, only formalized such that Coke cannot legally replace the ingredients of regular Coke with the ingredients of Diet coke and still call it Coke. With Software they could at least use version numbers and release modifiers. most of the time its built in already, but it needs to include the full stack. if they change anything that has an interaction with the user it should change the label seen by the user for the product.

        thank you for coming to my ted talk

    • Rapzid 35 minutes ago
      No they weren't. Models are not "nerfed".
    • throwaw12 9 minutes ago
      if this is their common practice, that's so shameful, nerfing before a new product release
    • sekai 56 minutes ago
      > Damn people were right about 5.5 being nerfed in preparation for a version release. This is not at all a good look.

      Anthropic does this time and time again, unserious company

    • iLoveOncall 15 minutes ago
      This has happened every single time for the past year, why are people surprised? This is all so that the new models can look better on the benchmarks.
    • ieie3366 49 minutes ago
      No it’s not nerfed. Another poster said it the best, your dopamine receiptors are nerfed after the new model hype wears off
    • raincole 35 minutes ago
      People have been complaining about how the models are nerfed non-stop for two years. A stopped clock is right twice a day.
    • thefounder 28 minutes ago
      yeah, we need to make sure we don't get stuck with these two evil corps. Dario is really the worst. Plays the drama queen but he is very hard in all things dark(i.e. dark patterns).
    • LeBit 45 minutes ago
      But, it’s okay they do it because they charge less when it happens.

      Right?

    • j45 26 minutes ago
      It's a good pattern to detect for perhaps.
    • sunaookami 50 minutes ago
      It's not true. People need to stop believing these conspiracy theories.
    • LeBit 39 minutes ago
      Another reason we need to democratize local models.
    • igleria 48 minutes ago
      I literally hit the desk with an open hand yelling I KNEW IT
    • lichenwarp 30 minutes ago
      I'm not surprised at all that they might be doing shady shit, my free request was used up in less than 7 minutes and said pay to continue, no thanks. I've paid for monthly before, never again I don't care how good the model is. I asked about the extreme limited usage in their discord and got banned, not a good look. You don't have a way to measure what you're actually paying for and they can change it at any time.
    • spwa4 56 minutes ago
      It gets worse. You might wonder "why now"? Well ... this happened 2 days ago:

      https://x.com/follistatindev/status/2119129611510383014

      With early handouts of Qwen4 starting to be reported 5 days ago ... so if they're good, they would have had some hours to evaluate Qwen4 against Claude 5.5 and, then or right after was when Anthropic decided to put out 5.2 ...

      So yeah ... benchmaxxing and all that. BUT nevertheless, the published results seem to say that Qwen4-Max appears to match Opus 5.5 on some benchmarks, and Qwen4-27B (probably by going even harder than Qwen3.8-27B on thinking/inference time compute) can beat Sonnet 5.5 on some things.

      I guess they're not taking any chances. Keep in mind that Anthropic has declared they have non-public models (it's in their IPO filing). These are referred to by the shorthand names Model 2, Model 3, and Model 4. Essentially 4 is better than 3 is better than 2.

      Fable 5.2 is "2.5" so to speak. So Anthropic was holding back, but not anymore. And now they can dial the performance up once more with what they have ready, and probably once more after that.

      • theptip 8 minutes ago
        “Why now” - they are about to IPO. It has been obvious for months that they would drop a new flagship model at exactly this point.

        It would be funny though if you are right and that model is Fable 5.5 in a couple weeks.

      • karp773 48 minutes ago
        Do you know of any rumors if they are still planning to release Fable 5.5 before the IPO or today's 5.2 is it?
      • ActionHank 53 minutes ago
        Dario is gonna have to honeypot someone from Alibaba to get ahead.
  • yewenjie 58 minutes ago
    > Our first formalization of Fermat’s Last Theorem, performed by an unreleased research version of Claude, took 11 days. It relied on a purpose-built harness along with guidance from a human researcher. By contrast, a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents fully formalized the theorem in just 30 hours, with minimal human intervention. Fable 5.2 started from minimal prompts, built its own ways to coordinate, and used no mathematical references, only a list of intermediate theorem statements to score progress. It needed one-third of the action tokens as our first formalization and produced a proof seven times shorter. As can be seen in the figure below, Opus 5.5 (with the same 1,000-agent setup) completed only 26% of the formalization in 18 hours, and barely made any more progress after 30.

    Most people don't really have intuitions on what it means to push the frontier now (because AI has surpassed everything they are good at, for example, coding). We are truly inside the singularity (using Kurzweil's definition, slightly paraphrased - the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it).

    • Fordec 41 minutes ago
      I feel like I'm increasingly reading AI current events is more like learning about historical events. By the time information has entered my head, there is even newer information out there that already makes what my brain is only currently actively processing, obsolete.
      • FailMore 28 minutes ago
        Nice description
    • gwerbin 19 minutes ago
      > a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents

      Genuinely curious what that costs in terms of energy input and amortized computer cost vs. the previous version + a human's salary for 11 days.

    • websap 52 minutes ago
      This 1000x!

      We've sort of entered this twilight zone where most humans don't have the time, expertise, or moral compass to be able to use these models.

      We're all going to be harness engineers in the future.

      • adventured 19 minutes ago
        All the human engineers will be in harnesses in the future.

        Within three years most software developer jobs will consist of taking instruction from the AI systems. The humans won't see it that way, but that's what it will actually be. Realistically the thing that will happen is the humans will be put into harnesses (cubicles) and prompted by the AI (I need you to plug that server in; I need you to give me access to such and such; now do this, then do that). Most tech jobs will consist of AI telling the human what the AI needs the human to do next, de facto the human will be in a harness and will be getting told what to do.

        • dominotw 14 minutes ago
          But who gives it the intial prompt as to what to do?

          Someone has to type in "create the next billboard top 1 single" ?

      • Sateeshm 13 minutes ago
        We're all harness engineers already
      • achierius 35 minutes ago
        > We're all going to be harness engineers in the future

        No, that will be the model's job. We will largely be unemployed. Of course, we can surely depend on the largesse of Altman and Amodei to keep us fed and sheltered.

    • yieldcrv 35 minutes ago
      Isn't this part of the lore behind the Dune universe?

      Like, we're dropped into a post post post singularity world where AI already did all of that and is banned? as kind of a footnote that's never further explored in movie renditions that have been released

    • kaffekaka 43 minutes ago
      > We are truly inside the singularity (using Kurzweil's definition, slightly paraphrased - the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it).

      Uh, are you serious?

    • freecodeio 55 minutes ago
      I gotta admit, I am jelly as fuck I don't have access to a billion dollar datacenter. Would LOVE to put 1000 fable 5.2 agents to self-coordinate and get them to do something for me. Fuck life is unfair.
      • thimabi 39 minutes ago
        I’d be happy even without having access to a billion dollar datacenter, if I could use local models properly, but even that requires some serious hardware that is out of my reach. We live in weird times: I have lots of hope for the future, but meanwhile AI access is pretty iniquitous indeed.
        • adventured 7 minutes ago
          Sub 1% of the planet has access to cutting edge frontier AI.

          Sub 1% of the planet has any practical use for the top tiers of AI systems. That will likely always be true.

          The gap between the haves and have nots will drastically widen further, and very quickly. The bottom ~95-97% will be left behind in a way that will be impossible to overcome. The age of AI + robotics will just make it that much harder to climb for most people, these are systems that are in aggressive, direct competition with human labor. And in short order the AI + robots will be vastly superior to human labor (it doesn't really matter if we're speaking in terms of 10 years or 30 years).

          AI will consolidate the winnings. The gigantic gains by the elite rich related to AI over the past few years, is merely a hint of what's to come. Capital will win as it always does.

          There will be some gains for most everybody else, those gains will be comparatively trivial though. A house bot that saves people an hour of labor here and there, AI that automates some trivial life tasks.

          AI has no money, it has no wealth, it owns no capital. For now. If you want to avoid the brutal human vs AI/robot competition arena: own capital, own the AI, own the robots.

      • flanz_10 44 minutes ago
        apply at one of the frontier labs
        • freecodeio 34 minutes ago
          yeah I wish
          • microsoftedging 4 minutes ago
            you never know until you try, even though the odds might suck, to be fair.
    • stickfigure 27 minutes ago
      > the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it

      You're obviously not a frontend web developer.

      These upgrades are easy peasy. "oh, my developer chatbot is smarter? great"

    • bamboozled 14 minutes ago
      If we're in the singularity, can I just take the day off work and go to the beach ?
    • otabdeveloper4 45 minutes ago
      > using Kurzweil's definition

      Kurzweil probably didn't know the singularity is akshually 1000 schizo monkeys banging on a billion dollar typewriter.

      • sagarm 42 minutes ago
        Amusing, but this is still a qualitative change from just a few months ago.

        It had seemed like progress was slowing last year as the juice ran out on moar parameters. We're well past that.

  • postalcoder 38 minutes ago
    I’ve had a chance to use fable 5.2. Some observations:

    - Anthropic is finally well balanced across models. Meaning: Opus 5.5 is so good that I do not feel Fable FOMO as I did when it was Fable 5/5.1 vs Opus 4.8/5. And Sonnet 5.5 sometimes makes me forget about Opus.

    - Fable is good, but you really have to push the ambition of your prompt in order to see proper separation from Opus 5.5. I personally have a hard time telling the difference between Fable 5.2 and Opus 5.5 for ordinary coding tasks.

    - It’s way faster and more reliable: one of the worst things about fable 5.1 was how slow it was an, on top of that, how frequently it would suffer from max output token overflows. I got none of these issues with 5.2.

    - Fable is exceptional at drawing. It’s ability to render an image with JavaScript actually has me questioning the value of dedicated image models. I prefer the images I’ve gotten fable/opus to make for me over those from gpt-image, it’s wild to think we’re at this point.

    • wolttam 13 minutes ago
      > Fable is good, but you really have to push the ambition of your prompt in order to see proper separation from Opus 5.5.

      I love seeing this verbalized. We are pretty much at the point that increased model capability will only have utility to folks that are willing to let go of even more understanding of whatever the model is producing.

      The best models can/will produce a year's worth of output that would take several days to weeks to properly understand in the span of an afternoon.

      For everyone that still wants to feel like they own the end result, just use the lesser models with less ambitious tasks.

      Caveat: I think this mainly applies to coding. I would still like the best models possible to be working on e.g. new drug research to cure our various ailments.

    • gwerbin 12 minutes ago
      Does Fable 5.2 outperform Opus for data science work?

      Not just "iterate on this XGBoost model" but actually looking at a problem and designing and carrying out a short-term R&D program including probability modeling, model fitting diagnostics, how to respond to various kinds of results, how to interpret/reason about what it finds, etc. That's really where I saw all the models perform poorly, and where I saw the first big step increase from Opus 5 (pre-5.5) to Fable. But then Opus 5.5 came out and I haven't needed Fable since.

      Mind you, I'm doing slightly different work (and I'm very much "in the loop" still) than when I performed that side-by-side test. But it's really amazing what Opus 5.5 can do. I now have a powerful data science AI assistant that not only can write any script I need it to (including some scripts I didn't even realize I needed), and it has an encyclopedic knowledge of everything ever, and it constantly checks me on oversights, it handily derives expressions and clever model reparameterizations that aid, it has great insight into model behavior, and it has an amazing ability come up with ad-hoc experiments and tests that would have taken me 2x as long to even think of (let alone implement by hand).

      It's not at the scared-to-lose-my-job phase yet, but it's become a tremendous force multiplier for a smaller data team.

    • hungryhobbit 14 minutes ago
      And none of it matters ... because just as soon as you are happy with things "balanced across models" Anthropic will nerf the models you were happy with, and force you to use new and more expensive ones.
  • breakwaterlabs 34 minutes ago
    - Why are they stacking Fable xHigh against Carbon Med?

    - How did they produce such a bizarre effort-intel curve for Carbon that goes against every available benchmark?

    - Why did they leave Carbon-- positioned primarily as a cyber model-- off of the single cyber benchmark comparison?

    - Why do they switch to comparing against Argon (rather than carbon) for robodojo?

    • jsnell 4 minutes ago
      > - Why are they stacking Fable xHigh against Carbon Med?

      Because on that specific benchmark (FrontierCode 2.0), Medium is Carbon's best effort level and xhigh is Fable 5.2's best effort level. You can see that on the graph your next point is about.

      And it's just that one benchmark that's at medium. "All scores show each model’s highest-available effort unless otherwise noted".

      > - How did they produce such a bizarre effort-intel curve for Carbon that goes against every available benchmark?

      The graph is labeled as being about FrontierCode 2.0. Those appear to be Carbon's scores on the official FrontierCode 2.0 leaderboard: https://cognition.com/blog/frontier-code-2.0

      > - Why did they leave Carbon-- positioned primarily as a cyber model-- off of the single cyber benchmark comparison?

      > - Why do they switch to comparing against Argon (rather than carbon) for robodojo?

      Because no numbers are available for Carbon for those benchmarks, and the model isn't publicly available so they couldn't run the benchmarks themselves?

    • polski-g 7 minutes ago
      Because Carbon is not out, nobody can run tests on it.
    • marshalla 27 minutes ago
      yes. this.
    • breakwaterlabs 22 minutes ago
      Just to follow-up-- artificial Analysis shows no justification for that Carbon effort curve, but it does show Carbon on medium smashing Fable on things like Terminal-Bench and AA-Omniscience v1.1 Non-Hallucination Rate.

      But I suppose the reality is rather obvious when you note the funny games they're playing with the graphs, and the things they won't talk about (where's Astra on that CVE chart?)

  • dualvariable 36 minutes ago
    Setting aside the comments about nerfing, do normal mortals out there have workflows that really require Fable/Mythos and don't just work fine on Opus 5.5?

    I've been using Opus 5.5 on xhigh for some decently aggressive software development on a ~125k-line project, and it has been fine for me. I'm not really willing to dive into a "rewrite the whole project, don't make any mistakes" level of refactoring. I'm not looking to try to prove Fermat's Last Theorem myself. Is there anything that I'm truly missing?

    • AnotherGoodName 0 minutes ago
      Sure but they’re the harder problems.

      Eg. https://tfmbot.com is an implementation of a popular board game. Opus and even sonnet handle that part. Each week i spend my remaining credits on fable to think how to improve the ai. It plays at a very high level (can get into the top 100 on BGA if i let it).

    • c-fe 2 minutes ago
      I am in the exact same boat as you. Opus 5.5 on High solves all engineering problems i encounter in my SWE job. If it doesnt do well, its nearly always requirements engineering: I did forget to specify something or there was a misunderstanding. Or taste approach wrt to architectures chosen. None of these are really different if I use a stronger model.

      I am also happy with this current state, as I believe it will at some point allow me to transition to open models once they reach the level of opus 5.5. high. But its probably futile to try predict the future in these times.

    • moecables 22 minutes ago
      I only use Fable 5.1 when I'm able to start on a larger feature within my work's codebase. Most tasks can be done by Sonnet 5.5 or Opus 5.5 so I don't fret, especially if I understand the technical aspect of what's being done, e.g. user's dashboard gets a new button to do X thing, error happened b/c we didn't catch it the first time around.

      For Fable, I really like to think of it as the heavyweight reviewer whenever I'm about to start so I save myself some security and/or glaring technical issue.

    • jrflo 29 minutes ago
      I’ve found that Fable is good when the model intuition really matters. For instance, picking model architecture in a machine learning problem. Opus will grind the implementation just fine, but having intuition for picking a good research direction is better with fable
    • andriy_koval 16 minutes ago
      LoC doesn't tell full story.

      It could be flat web app with frontend -> api -> db later, or some very complicated system with many components and edge cases. Imo, in second case, Opus still have lots of struggle to understand system as a whole.

    • Aboutplants 34 minutes ago
      I’m in the same boat. Though I will occasionally use Fable to review things to see if it can pick up anything but I’ve honestly not found it to be any more effective than Opus.
  • cobri 1 hour ago
    Does this coincide with the claimed nerfing of Opus 5.5? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50422069
    • arcanemachiner 42 minutes ago
      I hope so. I've been having brain fog for a couple days now and would love it if it was actually Opus 5.5's fault.
    • kilroy123 44 minutes ago
      In my experience, this happens every single time they release a new model.
    • paulcole 2 minutes ago
      it is happening at the same time but "claimed nerfing" is not the same as "actual nerfing."
    • dyauspitr 41 minutes ago
      Nerfing an existing model is the biggest crime in this space. I can’t imagine Dario okaying this because it’s what will immediately destroy your brand.
    • jasonlotito 1 hour ago
      At this point, this is giving "She Deep Breaths More" from Onyxia in WoW.
  • advaith08 23 minutes ago
    We've been early testing Fable 5.2, and have been surprised by its coding ability. It was able to work with an esoteric 600k line fortran codebase to speed up some computational material science work for us by 36 times (!). Given that this could be done in 2 days, we've decided to open-source the results https://github.com/discovered-materials/dm_qe
  • phillennium 2 minutes ago
    Every time there's a flagship release like that, I wonder what simple "benchmark task" could I give it to see the the capabilities change in most obvious way, instead of trusting the official blog post.

    I'm not a mathematician to use Erdős problems for testing. I'm also not willing to spend buckloads of tokens just for a test. What is simple and quick but telling? What tasks are not saturated by previous models? Do you have a task you give to all the new models?

    • Juvination 0 minutes ago
      For the last year or so every new model we have it test out making pac-man from scratch, not giving it web access and it can use whatever language it wants. The last few models have been almost perfect one shots, but it was interesting seeing them evolve.
  • __natty__ 1 hour ago
    Maybe it's just me, but I found Claude's writing style terrible compared to GPT or Gemini. It's "smart", but the way it communicates seems somehow off compared to other models.
    • aurareturn 57 minutes ago
      Opus 5 and Fable 5 were unbearable in their writing style. They were very cryptic and hard to understand.

      Opus 5.5 is a massive improvement.

      • PetahNZ 18 minutes ago
        Opus 5.5 went back to the old writing style a few days ago.
        • jojva 4 minutes ago
          I had the same feeling. It's like every sentence becomes a struggle to parse: referencing things that haven't been introduced, using too many pronouns, the lack of verbs and the passive tense... These past few days it's felt more like Opus 5.1 than 5.5.
      • stillpointlab 38 minutes ago
        I really didn't like Opus 5 and was vocal about it. Opus 5.5 is noticeably better, but literally just yesterday I was fighting parsing some summary it had given me and it was a bit like the old days. IOW, it is better but still has some room to improve.
      • kccoder 24 minutes ago
        You can easily change its writing style: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/output-styles

        You can also customize further by putting notes in your global MD.

        • hungryhobbit 13 minutes ago
          You can change it ... and Claude will maybe pay attention to what you changed 25% of the time.
      • winfredJa 51 minutes ago
        opus 5.5 is still unbearable but better than 5.
        • testfrequency 45 minutes ago
          Agree. It’s still awful. Gemini by far sounds the most natural IMO
    • mattlondon 43 minutes ago
      Yep I find the way Opus 5.5 talks to me really annoying and irritating. Quite condescending and sanctimonious.

      I prefer Gemini for day to day use as I find it a lot more agreeable to be working with all day every day, and Gemini is pretty much on a par for coding Vs Opus 5.5, at least for my needs.

    • uw_rob 50 minutes ago
      I've found Claude's writing between 4.6 until 5.0 to be unacceptable if you are someone who is juggling 4-5 Agents. The Sol 5.X models all seemed to have great writing. Now with Opus 5.5 and Sol 6.1 I've found the trend is reversed -- Sol is now unbearable and Opus is workable again. Whatever caused the issues for Anthropic seem to be hitting OAI now.
      • jauntywundrkind 41 minutes ago
        sol is ok. it still such a superthinky model that it gets tangled up trying to present way too much? i struggle to connect with it often, have ti ask it to try again.

        terra has been prettt good for me for me, when i need something looked at an explained to me.

        i dont ask for much non-technical output though, which i expect yeah is its own cans of worms.

    • holzhaker1 44 minutes ago
      No its just straight up terrible. I tried out Gemini Argon when it released and my god did it write beautifully. Even the 3.8 Flash models are way better at prose, i do a lot of automatic scriptwriting for youtube and 3.8 flash is leagues ahead of anything from anthropic/openai
      • Foobar8568 34 minutes ago
        I enjoy a lot Argon, maybe more than chatgpt, but damn, like all Gemini models, lots of hallucination and sycophant to the max, so a bit useless for agentic coding.
    • djmips 1 hour ago
      I've heard a lot of chatter that agrees with you so anecdotally it's not just you.
      • dmboyd 41 minutes ago
        How much of this is bad writing style, versus a homogenization of global grammar conventions.
        • eli 36 minutes ago
          Bad writing style
    • nsingh2 48 minutes ago
      My own experience having used 6.1-Sol/6-Astra and Opus 5.5 extensively, Opus is more verbose and chatty in it's user communication (not code though, code is usually more straightforward & cleaner than GPT models). Multiple times I've gone "I'm not reading all that shit" when looking at Opus 5.5 output. This was also with the concise mode enabled in Claude Code.

      It could also be a system prompt + harness issue, as opposed to a model issue, I haven't done too much experimentation here.

    • alasano 1 hour ago
      Did you find that to be true for Opus 5.5 as well?

      I couldn't use prior Claude models without rolling my eyes at the writing every few sentences, Astra was refreshing and then Opus 5.5 made even Astra look terrible in comparison.

      • gwking 26 minutes ago
        Opus 5.5 got better for me but it still has some problematic behavior.

        Interestingly, you can have informative conversations about the LLM linguistic tics with the LLMs themselves. One word that chatgpt used to describe what I was observing was linguistic anaphora (not rhetorical). It’s basically shortening/compression achieved via pronoun, and Claude does a lot of it. Worth reading about. A lot of it seems to do with how the new models are trained for brevity.

        Another pattern I’m starting to become very sensitive to is Claude making up on the fly jargon for something under consideration, especially in code review. This morning for example it referred to “a claim” out of nowhere, and when I questioned it, it admitted that it was using the noun as shorthand for a record getting dequeued (“claimed”) inside of an sql transaction. It makes sense if you already know what it is referring to but in a code review it’s totally incomprehensible on first read, and ultimately counterproductive.

      • iamdelirium 50 minutes ago
        I still find Opus 5.5 way too dense. MUCH better than Opus 5 which was unreadable.

        Even the Plain English hack only is a temporary solution.

        • Foobar8568 29 minutes ago
          5.5 is awful, I am at a stage where I can't even understand the shit it's writing.
    • mariofdistrust 41 minutes ago
      i've always liked reading claude's speech, it's very nice. i didn't feel much of a difference between 5.5 and 5.0.
    • johnnyApplePRNG 55 minutes ago
      Ever spoken to a savant programmer?

      They're not typically known for their interpersonal skills.

      • uw_rob 43 minutes ago
        I don't think its this. Some models across both labs have had issues with writing and communication and it typically seems to pop up on successor models of really strong ones.

        Opus 4.7/4.8 heavily suffered from these communication quirks. while the Sol models at the time worked well. Right now its flipped though and Opus 5.5 has none of these issues while Sol 6.1 does.

        Small example I've had today: "Me: Hey Sol 6.1 xhigh, does X have property Y? Sol 6.1: Yes, if we change X to have property Y. Right now it has property [...], [...], [...], and it does not have property Y." The model shouldn't be answering questions like that. It makes understanding extremely hard and slow. For whatever reason it's either being encouraged or at least not stomped out during RL.

      • Tadpole9181 35 minutes ago
        The best programmers I've met or read throughout my life are phenomenal communicators. I'd even go so far as to say it's likely one of the reasons they're so good at programming. After all, the majority of our job is converting human requirements in lossy language to fleshed out behaviors in formal, lossless language.

        Heck, some of the most common debates are on the semantic clarity of abstractions or syntax.

  • minimaxir 1 hour ago
    There were more than a few "leaks" saying it would be called Fable 5.5, so I'm curious if a) the leaks were just engagementbait or b) Anthropic changed it, despite the fact that Fable 5.2 being better than Opus 5.5 is confusing.

    Surprisingly the model is available immediately in my Claude Code: usually there's a delay, either for rollout or safety.

    • bhu8 14 minutes ago
      The pricing is different than 5.1, the model is faster than 5.1. This all suggests that the architecture/size is not the same as Fable 5.1.

      So, this is probably Fable 5.5; it's just named Fable 5.2.

      Also, this is probably Model 3 from METR's report [^1]. They would name Model 4 Fable 5.5, once (and if) they decide to release it.

      [^1]: https://metr.org/blog/2026-11-05-anthropic-ai-rd-acceleratio...

    • rdtsc 57 minutes ago
      > There were more than a few "leaks" saying it would be called Fable 5.5

      Fed to someone specifically to test if they'll leak it and to confirm who that is?

      • LeBit 41 minutes ago
        Well who could have guessed they would use 5.5. Such an odd guess.
        • AspireOne 5 minutes ago
          Yeah, among the plethora of possible options, this really nails it down to the individual.
    • BorisMelnik 1 hour ago
      I'm a bit out of the loop - would the engagement bait be becuase it is 3 minor jumps forward?
      • unshavedyak 1 hour ago
        I assume because Opus 5.5 was a huge improvement over 5.0 (or was it 5.1? i forget). Fable still talks a fair bit like Opus 5.0 for me, so i'd quite enjoy a Fable equivalent to 5.5. Ie i'm quite interested in Fable 5.5.

        Curious to see how 5.2 measures up in producing readable output.

    • bananaflag 1 hour ago
      Probably they have a more impressive model in preparation, and they're gonna dub that Fable 5.5.
      • aurareturn 58 minutes ago
        Probably released on the same day they go public to generate maximum publicity.
        • orangecat 46 minutes ago
          They should be going public within the next few weeks and that would be a very short interval between releases. (And despite the chatter I'll be very surprised if they delay the IPO; it would be a massive PR hit and make it even harder for them in the future).

          My speculations: maybe this wasn't as much of an improvement over 5.1 as they were hoping, so they're saving 5.5 for the next major update (possibly "Model 4" from the METR report). Or, maybe capacity is constrained so "5.2" is a subtle encouragement to stick with Opus unless a task really needs the increased intelligence.

        • enraged_camel 25 minutes ago
          They are most likely saving it to one-up Astra 6.2, which is coming this week supposedly.
  • bhu8 47 minutes ago
    Ethan Mollick's take and early testing with Fable 5.2: https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/fable-52-and-jagged-agi
    • 0kk33 0 minutes ago
      Thanks for sharing!
    • asah 29 minutes ago
      omg where do I start... that horrible video? which highlights the limits of AI not the strengths!!! and gets almost everything wrong, from sunflowers to DNA.
  • pookieinc 1 hour ago
    “Testers have found that Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 communicate more clearly than past Fable and Mythos models. They generate outputs up to 30% faster than Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1, and they’re available at a lower price: $8 per million input tokens and $40 per million output tokens.”

    Honestly incredible that they’ve managed to beat all benchmarks, while making it cheaper. Always happy to see improvements offered at lower costs.

    Will be interesting to see what OpenAI does in response

    • privacyishuman 1 hour ago
      They still need a response to Opus 5.5
      • nsingh2 30 minutes ago
        It seems like OAI, with the GPT-6 models, focused a lot more on computer use, math, and maybe spatial/visual intelligence, more so that code. Compared to Ant. that seem to focus on code much more.

        Reminds me of GPT-5, smart but wrote crap code, until they improved the code training with 5.3 and 5.4.

      • alasano 59 minutes ago
        It's really true.

        I think frontier models feel terrible after a new model requires you to do less babysitting, it's just really hard to go back once you've had to handhold less.

        The only way I use Astra and 6.1 Sol now is if they're being orchestrated by Opus 5.5 so I don't have to talk to them directly.

      • sunaookami 48 minutes ago
        GPT-6.1-Sol is so incredibly sloppy and dumb, it's embarassing.
        • LeBit 38 minutes ago
          Maybe because it is so cheap.

          They want to condition you to equal cheap with bad

  • pacman1337 5 minutes ago
    I can't understand why people continue using opus 5.5. Significantly more expensive than other models that produce exact same results (for coding results only)

    If you are using Opus 5.5 I'm curious if it is because 1) your workflow is just stuck on it, 2) you don't care about money because you ain't paying it or 3 )do you think you get better results.

    If you 3 please let me know your experience and how you actually measure it, or if you just feel it is better.

  • george_max 4 minutes ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYynH177h0

    Seems like a new focus is electronics design, which is both interesting and a little sad to me. Manually designing electronics are one of the things I found incredible comfort in doing; seeing AI emerging in this space gives me mixed feelings.

  • george_max 10 minutes ago
    Looking at Artificial Analysis index, the price is absurd to me.

    https://artificialanalysis.ai/

    GPT-6.1 Sol costs $1.27 per task, whereas Fable 5.2 is $26.54 per task -- a ~21x price difference.

    Fable 5.2 is not 21 times better than GPT 6.1 Sol, I find it hard to justify this.

  • jjcm 26 minutes ago
    Image to html comparisons of Fable 5.2 and Opus 5.5 (the previous SOTA for this test):

    Fable 5.2: https://html.non.io/lcars-fable-5.2/

    Opus 5.5: https://html.non.io/lcars-opus-5.5/

    Source designs: https://diffui.ai/app/canvas/5093e689-1e74-4f26-b632-2a4500f...

    Thoughts:

    The best implementation wrt being as true as possible to the source design. It nails the flowing svg shapes. Icons are more accurate to the design - note the difference between the starship svg in the "Legendary platforms" card between Opus 5.5 and Fable 5.2. The 3js planets outside the windows are also really well done, especially the bottom one which has a nice background glow to it.

    It isn't without issues though - the flicker effect it added to the S shaped svg that weaves through the page is distracting in my opinion, and I actually thing the motion animation in the Opus 5.5 one is better overall. Still, it nails the implementation of this page, but it's no surprise considering how good Opus 5.5 was at this.

    Disclaimer / reminder: the objective of this test isn't to have a well designed webpage, it's a synthetic test that pushes the limits of LLM's vision capabilities. Traditionally LLMs have issues with smooth curves, svg animations, and non-boxy layouts, which this design pushes the limits of.

    • user43928 22 minutes ago
      There's something wrong with the Fable 5.2 version, the Customizing button doesn't work for me in Chrome on Desktop.
      • jjcm 10 minutes ago
        That's me versus fable. I only told fable to build out the first page rather than the full app that's in the designs (was approaching the limit of my claude plan).
  • unshavedyak 1 hour ago
    Looks like some plans get extra fable usage: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/17506494-claude-fable...
  • lacoolj 11 minutes ago
    Yet Opus 5.5 is only a few % under all of these benchmarks (cept the robotics and labor ones)

    Do we need new benchmarks or are the models just plateauing in general? Or is it something I just don't see?

  • moecables 11 minutes ago
    They're adding 1 to 3 resets for Fable only for all paid accounts. My work's Claude Max got 2 resets. My personal $20 plan got 1 reset.
  • stefanpie 4 minutes ago
    This part is mega concerning to me as someone who researches AI for hardware accelerator design and EDA:

      Safeguards
    
      AI research and development. The model that underlies Claude Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 is a step forward in general capabilities. However, during the model’s training, we took steps to limit advances in the specific research capabilities that could most directly accelerate AI development. Thus, in relevant areas, including accelerator kernel optimization and improving large language model architectures, Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 perform at about the level of Opus 5.5.
    
      Importantly, we ensured that the training changes did not affect related capabilities like agentic coding, hardware development, and traditional AI or machine learning research (including interpretability research). We do not alter these capabilities as the model is being served to users (that is, at inference time). As described in Section 1.5 of the system card (https://www.anthropic.com/document/claude-fable-5-2-mythos-5-2-system-card) and similarly to previous models, Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 also include transparent fallbacks to Opus 5 for a small set of topics in this domain, including kernel development on certain nonstandard accelerators.
    
    They are starting to deliberately limit public access to certain AI capabilities related to computer architecture and hardware optimization.

    To be clear, they explicitly say they are only targeting very specific capabilities, like accelerator kernel optimization, and that broader hardware development capabilities are unaffected. But 1) even that is pretty bold, especially the part about kernel development for nonstandard accelerator architectures, and 2) I worry that this could eventually expand to more areas of comp. arch., high-level digital design, chip design, and EDA.

    My speculation is that, as these kinds of chip design and EDA capabilities become increasingly important to frontier AI labs and their competitive advantages, there will be more incentives to restrict them.

    I don't think they've explicitly stated anything like this before regarding restrictions on these specific capabilities, but I could be wrong.

  • x187463 59 minutes ago
    I've very interested in the improvements to robotics control capabilities. This model was able to outperform specialized robotics models. It's the bitter lesson coming for robotics.
  • aurareturn 1 hour ago
    Is this the Model 4 internal name?

    Reference: https://x.com/METR_Evals/status/2118412205662314935

  • damsta 19 minutes ago
    Nerfing Opus 5.5 was obvious signal that something new is coming and here we are. I appreciate the resets and lower API price though. Please add selective context compaction, it would probably take an hour max for you to implement it.
  • bananaflag 1 hour ago
    Those theoretical physics papers look like the real thing (i.e. not mathematical physics like the OpenAI Yang-Mills result). It looks like AI is finally branching out of math.
    • modeless 42 minutes ago
      Interesting that the papers list no authors other than Claude. Also interesting that they published on "Hexagon" instead of Arxiv. I haven't heard of it before. Is it an AI-friendly alternative to Arxiv or something?

      Edit: yeah apparently it's an AI-moderated alternative to Arxiv that accepts AI-authored papers (as well as human-authored papers I guess if you want).

  • hmate9 1 hour ago
    Its cheaper at $8 per million input tokens and $40 per million output tokens which is also pretty sweet.
    • minimaxir 1 hour ago
      Additionally, the terms for the free resets are unusually generous: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/17506494-claude-fable...

      > the number of Fable resets you get depends on how long you’ve been a paid subscriber [...] Subscription length is measured from the date of your first paid bill. If you canceled and came back, the time since your first paid bill still counts.

      > These resets expire on March 8, 2027 at 11:59 pm PT.

      tl;dr if you joined when Opus 4.5 became a thing, you got 2 resets.

      • CreepGin 20 minutes ago
        I just got 3 fable resets. I guess I joined before Opus 4.5.
      • guybedo 1 hour ago
        i might be wrong here but it seems these are not resets of your weekly quota but resets of the Fable limit.

        That means you can lift your Fable max 50% usage and you'll just end up burning through your quota faster. You won't have more tokens.

        • johnwards 57 minutes ago
          This is what it says in the UI:

          "Resets your Fable limit, and takes this week’s Fable use off your weekly limit."

        • minimaxir 1 hour ago
          "Weekly limit: gives you back the usage you’ve spent on Fable models"
  • marshalla 28 minutes ago
    On FrontierCode 2.0 Fable 5.2 xhigh is compared against Gemini 4 Carbon medium... Is there a reason for that?
  • stillpointlab 27 minutes ago
    My first impression with Fable 5.2 -- it is faster than I expected. Asked it to do a large review and it responded with a good overview super fast.
  • iammrpayments 1 hour ago
    Too expensive for me
    • ttul 54 minutes ago
      Really? A $200/mo plan gives you an enormous amount of inference on this model.
      • LeBit 31 minutes ago
        200$USD is a lot of money for a lot of people.

        It might explain why DeepSeek Flash v4.1 1017 is the most popular model at OpenRouter.

      • mortalapeman 6 minutes ago
        What you need for real engineering and scaling is cheap and just enough smarts. I've found GPT 6 Luna to be cheap enough that I can pretend the cost doesn't exist and it's smart enough that I can get real work done. This let's me scale it in ways that I can't scale frontier models. And funny enough, the LLM I have running on my 5070 Ti is just about comparable to what I get from Luna. Unless frontier intelligence gets waaaaaay cheaper I basically don't care about them.
      • cyanydeez 30 minutes ago
        how much?
  • Leary 48 minutes ago
    Context window maxes out at 200k in Claude Code instead of 1M on my $200 ultra plan? is this intended?
    • emadabdulrahim 45 minutes ago
      Seeing the same thing here, using Claude desktop app

      Update: fixed after updating to latest version of the app

  • awongh 1 hour ago
    Doubling Remote Labor Index (RLI) - at 41.3% compared to around 20% for the other models - I wonder what kinds of new agentic work this is going to unlock.
  • trilogic 50 minutes ago
    Gemini carbon low costs more than medium! Weird results on that chart, care to explain?
    • eli 35 minutes ago
      More reasoning solves tricky problems in fewer steps and makes fewer mistakes that need to be redone.
  • horseloverthin 56 minutes ago
    Assuming no implicit phacking a 15 point jump on tbench scientific is a big deal.

    I suspect we will see people being adamant that this model simply 'feels' better due to long horizon goal alignment improvements ( like this kind that would cause this jump)

  • I_am_tiberius 1 hour ago
    It's pretty sad that they obviously have better models in the pipeline and don't release them yet for strategic reasons.
  • astlouis44 35 minutes ago
    Anyone tried making games with it yet?
  • shmoil 1 hour ago
    >> Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 are a step above Opus 5.5 in almost all the capabilities we evaluated.

    Was this before you lobotomized Opus 5.5 or after?

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50419019

    • solumos 1 hour ago
      Definitely raises an interesting question. Are they using launch benchmarks for Opus 5.5, or Oopus 5.5 from this week?
      • minimaxir 56 minutes ago
        Normally I would say "just check against the original Opus 5.5 benchmarks" : https://www.anthropic.com/claude-opus-5-5

        ...but most of the benchmarks don't line up anymore because the benchmarks have changed.

        The Humanity's Last Exam result matches the initial announcement, though.

  • rafram 3 minutes ago
    The "CVE Rediscovery" benchmark chart feels... totally meaningless. Quoting the description:

    > CVE Rediscovery is an internal cybersecurity evaluation that assesses how many published CVEs (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures) a model can independently find when given a snapshot of the project before a CVE was fixed. Our October 2026 run against 1,829 CVEs showed Claude Mythos 5.2 outperformed Claude Mythos 5.1 and Claude Opus 5.5 at every effort level.

    > published CVEs

    So by definition this is just measuring how many CVEs (and/or explanations / PoCs of CVEs) the model has memorized. What are we supposed to learn from that?

  • iamdelirium 1 hour ago
    FrontierCode 2.0 is such a poor benchmark for Gemini since it's the only model forced to use Devin CLI while other models get to use their preferred harness.

    I wonder why that team singles Gemini out like that.

    • mattlondon 42 minutes ago
      Probably can't work out how to sign up for the API!
  • stillpointlab 40 minutes ago
    Yay! New model day. The most likely time the model isn't nerfed and we get a glimpse at the latest capability.

    I wonder how long this kind of excitement at new models will last? I mean, now when I get a new iPhone I don't get the same rush I used to. So I wonder if this hype feeling will fade as we plateau in model capability.

  • TuxSH 29 minutes ago
    I'm not sure whether the claimed jump in capabilities makes it worth the doubling in input/output prices.

    Asked it to review a 80 kLoC codebase, something Opus does just fine, while asking it "max 4 subagents". Fable 5.2, like the well-aligned model it supposedly is, decided to spawn 6+ nested subagents, because these aren't subagents, apparently - resulting in 100% of 5hr usage being drained in less than 20min (on $100).

  • borschtplease 22 minutes ago
    Maybe at last it will learn to check git state right before claiming obsolete and incorrect info.

    Download Chrome just to check some minor ui bug? Sure

    Check git for 0.5s before claiming that we're on some branch (incorrect one) with no commits pushed (incorrect one)? Sorry, can't do

  • iagiagiag 28 minutes ago
    > Thus, in relevant areas, including accelerator kernel optimization and improving large language model architectures, Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 perform at about the level of Opus 5.5.

    Obviously. Well, we know what's the "secret sauce". AI models building better AI models and better kernels to optimize inference and training.

  • butler14 1 hour ago
    Just read the other thread about opus being nerfed and thought "cue the new release"... paha
  • artisin 1 hour ago
    We'll see what my bank account has to say about this:

    > Fable 5.2 at High effort scored about level with Opus 5.5 at Max effort, for roughly half the cost per task

  • tiffanyh 1 hour ago
    I didn't realize that Opus 5.5 was more capable than Fable 5.1 in virtually every category.
    • breezybottom 34 minutes ago
      Seemed pretty clear from the benchmarks when they released it.
    • sekai 57 minutes ago
      Not anymore, they have nerfed it.
  • mococa 48 minutes ago
    I knew it, Claude was pretty dumb from last days until now
  • meisel 44 minutes ago
    Curious to see the Maxxbench score for these
  • Topfi 56 minutes ago
    I have gotten three (3!) banked resets. That is something.
  • ealready_value 1 hour ago
    Very interesting that they set the flagship's version number to 5.2, but their penultimate model is 5.5. Do they want people to to continue to think that Opus is based on more advanced technology? The decision these AI companies make continues to baffle me.
  • adeptima 49 minutes ago
    Why dont I feel any urge to even try Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 unless it will force up on me?

    Compared Opus 5.5 200 usd a month with Codex 200 usd (Astra High) and Kimi Pro 100 usd a month ... and now have a new conspiracy theory - more their suck your code the better outcome even just over few days time on large code base.

    Horrible experience correcting course of Codex and Kimi flow compare to Opus. Opus much more responsive

    Dont feel any gain of Codex 200 usd over Codex 100 usd

    Kimi Pro feels like a fake Louis Vuitton bag with extreme high material quality and yet still fake ... a bit trash talk ... but clearly seen not so distant future where I can live without Codex and Claude

  • BoorishBears 32 minutes ago
    Using this in CC and immediately getting a cartoonish number of compactions.

    The disdain frontier labs have for their users really sucks.

  • LoganDark 44 minutes ago
    It's really weird that they folded Project Glasswing into the CVP, but they're still limiting the new versions of Mythos to "vetted organizations". So Project Glasswing still exists then? Oh well.
  • geoffbp 15 minutes ago
    Ok come on let’s do a pelican
  • rfgplk 42 minutes ago
    Every single time I click on these announcements the frontier model ALWAYS scores around ~60-80%. Every. Single. Time. Like, I just went back to the Opus 4.6 + 5 announcements, they were also scoring 60-80%.

    https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-opus-4-6 https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-opus-5 https://openai.com/index/introducing-gpt-5-3-codex/

    For every single announcement, not only do the top models always score 60-80%, the older models somehow start scoring 20-30% (even though previously they were scoring 60%). It's completely unclear whether the methodology changes, how these scores are even evaluated or which domains are being tested. What's worse is that the "benchmarks" keep being updated with no explanation or due process.

    • wrs 10 minutes ago
      The benchmarks have a lot of churn because the models keep saturating them. But the Anthropic announcements you linked, and the current one, have the benchmark versions listed right there in the table.
  • doctorpangloss 51 minutes ago
    google's agy usage is so generous, it might not matter
  • canadiantim 1 hour ago
    god bless token resets!
    • hello5010 1 hour ago
      > god bless token resets!

      You have session limits?

      You should probably give OpenCode a try. Can run DeepSeek, Qwen, Kimi, … but also Fable 5.2, Opus 5.5 and GPT 6 Astra

      • jcomp 56 minutes ago
        While I like OpenCode a lot, it’s not sensible to use it for anthropic models vs. a subscription (other than to use the included API credits) in terms of cost
  • arul99 39 minutes ago
    damn
  • OtomotO 58 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • fermlon30000 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • mikert89 1 hour ago
    The end of software is so close, very soon the code itself will be nearly obsolete, there will be schedulers, queues, a database, and the model
    • Sateeshm 1 minute ago
      Any software that is not already basically this or has this in it, is already doomed.
    • ungovernableCat 1 hour ago
      Which model though? Sounds pretty dystopian if there's no local option. Even speaking as a business, why would I want a environment where every single bit of information in my business goes to OpenAI or Anthropic?
      • mikert89 55 minutes ago
        because you wont be in business trying to compete by using human labor/open models
        • ungovernableCat 46 minutes ago
          Why not? If we use labour as a comparison. The majority of businesses by definition do not hire the most incredibly intelligent and most competent workers and they are still competing in their niches and earning an income. Why wouldn't that be the case with choosing an open model vs fable 8.0?
      • arthurcolle 53 minutes ago
        It'll be cheaper than hiring people and maintaining software, presumably
        • ungovernableCat 44 minutes ago
          I think that ultimately depends on how many providers remain in the endgame of this. If it's only one or two companies, I don't think it'll be very fun when it's time to negotiate your token pricing contract every few years.
  • hugodan 47 minutes ago
    cool, and how good does it kill little girls in the middle east?
  • fermlon30000 1 hour ago
    stop OPUS 5.5 FUCK, DAMMIT, THEY DIDN’T JUST NERF HIM—THEY ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATED HIM, THE FUCKING MISANTHROPES! I EVEN MADE A MISTAKE IN MY ENGLISH IN THE PREVIOUS SENTENCE—NOW THAT FUCKING CLAUDE IS TEACHING ME ABOUT BUGS!
  • theverycob 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • theverycob 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • 217 1 hour ago
    [flagged]