9 comments

  • colinsane 13 minutes ago
    FYI, x86_64-linux and i686-linux nixpkgs bootstrap seed is not 25 bundled binaries, but 181 bytes, since https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/479322. at publication date this article would apply to non-x86 platforms like aarch64-linux, risvc64-linux, etc.

    if you're concerned about this and not on x86, i encourage you to extend this to other platforms! i believe it's possible to generalize this to every linux platform musl itself supports, in time.

  • Jach 49 minutes ago
    I'm glad they mention Wheeler's work briefly in section 7.2, since it provides a general counter to the trusting-trust attack that a lot of people seem to not know about. They dismiss it as not applying in this case, but I'm not really convinced by their argument. It's true if you only replace the compiler and run in the same environment then it won't help, but IIRC Wheeler's approach treats the environment itself as a parameter to diversify on. So not just the compiler, but also the host/OS, and even the hardware. Thus it's trivial to extend it to strip. Build binutils from source with your bad distro toolchain, fixup with your distro strip, call this build A. Then build binutils from source in a diverse environment, which includes fixup with a diverse stripper, call this B. Then do a rebuild (same diverse environment) but with B's toolchain and stripper, call this C, and compare C with A. Mismatch busts the attack.
  • EGreg 7 minutes ago
    Ken Thompson's Trusting Trust is an interesting conundrum... there is a modern solution to it:

    https://ulanguage.org/ULanguage#trust

  • wiml 54 minutes ago
    From TFA:

    > Ken Thompson's trusting-trust attack [...] is widely regarded as a threat specific to compilers. We show that it is not

    And yet, from Reflections On Trusting Trust:

    > In demonstrating the possibility of this kind of attack, I picked on the C compiler. I could have picked on any program-handling program such as an assembler, a loader, or even hardware microcode.

    The paper is certainly a nice worked-out example of the attack, which is worthwhile, but it's not novel.

    • stephenlf 37 minutes ago
      “Widely regarded” still applies, I think.
    • nickpsecurity 9 minutes ago
      It goes back to Paul Karger's MULTICS Security Evaluation where he invented and described the attack. Thompson learned it from him. Karger invented a lot of attacks and security techniques a decade or more ahead of the hacking community.

      https://gwern.net/doc/cs/security/2002-karger.pdf

  • nickpsecurity 10 minutes ago
    The solution to this in the Orange Book (TCSEC) days in the 1980's-1990's was a system fully traceable from requirements to code, proven to embed a security policy, and analyzable and buildable from source locally by the customer using existing, trusted tools. Eventually, people added hashes for the code and data.

    So, your program that combines source files or checks dependencies would be fully specified in its success and failure states. Only combinations of functions leading to a provably-secure state are even allowed. If you can't do that, the feature is too complex to allow. Human pentesters review it from design to algorithms to building it to spot ways attacks might happen.

    That's what it takes to build software that usually resists subversion. Most software isn't built that way. It can't be because the priorities of developers and customers work against it. So, we'll continue to see clever attacks that exploit systems not designed to high security standards.

    For this topic, I recommend David A. Wheeler's page on Software, Configuration Management Security because it covers many issues with it in mostly-centralized systems.

  • rep_lodsb 38 minutes ago
    This is basically an ELF executable file infecting virus, nothing novel about that.
  • jijji 7 minutes ago
    you could backdoor not only the strip command but alot of other commands that work on elf binaries: strings, strace, objdump, nm, ldd, etc
  • charcircuit 1 hour ago
    This paper can be boiled down to:

    If you have malware on your CI machine it can infect the artifacts it creates.

  • shevy-java 1 hour ago
    In other words: AI can not be trusted.
    • Legend2440 1 hour ago
      Nothing about this uses AI in any way. I'm so tired of people injecting it into every conversation.
      • hackingonempty 1 hour ago
        AI could enable script kiddies to pull this off.
        • cpburns2009 49 minutes ago
          Script kiddies have always been a problem you have to defend against. This is nothing new.
          • jacquesm 26 minutes ago
            Script kiddies will soon have capabilities that nation states once upon a time could only dream of.