K2 Horizon: Frontier Performance, Radically Open

(ifm.ai)

102 points | by karimf 1 hour ago

11 comments

  • a11r 30 minutes ago
    It is great to see another player introduce a fully open stack. Nvidia's Nemotron is the only other prominent one I know of.

    All that said, the headline claims do not match the self-reported performance. For example, the dense 32B model is significantly behind Qwen3.8 27B (chart towards the bottom of https://ifm.ai/blog/k2). Gemma4 31B is not in the comparison set. This is the most important sweet spot for self hosted open-weight models today and real competition here will be very welcome.

    • xienze 22 minutes ago
      They have the 32B listed as "stage 1" with the note "final checkpoint to be released." So, not finished yet. Not sure why you'd release it if it's not finished, but that's the explanation.

      The 7B does look very, very good however.

  • jjordan 1 hour ago
    Fully open models really need to be a big part of the AI future. That includes all source code, open training data, how it's organized, fed to the model, processed, etc. Until that becomes a thing you're always going to be left wondering what exactly lies underneath the closed model you are using, leaving open the possibility for societal manipulation.
    • kibae 46 minutes ago
      The training data would need to have a permissive license for this to be possible.
      • ux266478 36 minutes ago
        You could sidestep it by running non-permissibly licensed training data that you purchased through an LLM. Legal attitude so far seems to be that this is transformative as long as it's not 1:1. The question on whether or not the end result is copyrightable of course remains controversial and inconsistent, but that question is also fairly irrelevent. You don't get more libre than public domain.

        That's a fair amount of computational and labor overhead mind you, as you'll need to verify and prune the quality of your mountain of synthetic data, but certainly possible.

        Though this assumes the legal system is a rational actor playing by the set of rules it claims to. In fact, I highly suspect you could get very unlucky and get an unfavorable ruling against you, because you stepped on a big pile of money's toes in the process of doing this.

      • echelon 30 minutes ago
        Eventually we'll just construct 100% synthetic training data that can reliably reproduce pretrains and fine tunes.

        The first broadly useful fully open source models will do this.

        We already have open data / open code / open weights for some domain-specific cases, such as audio models trained on large open datasets, eg. Tacotron / LJSpeech from waaay back in the day, though that is certainly not SOTA anymore.

        Distillation could possibly be considered an early case of this as raw AI outputs are themselves not copyrightable unless humans enrich, filter, or transform them. Granted, that does not handle the cases where the outputs are sufficiently similar to copyrighted original works.

    • trvz 51 minutes ago
      Why? Sure, I’d prefer it, too, but this is just another GNU/Linux vs. macOS situation: most of us would prefer the first, but actually get shit done on the latter.
      • didibus 23 minutes ago
        And that's why companies shouldn't fear opening up, but having both is still a net benefit.
      • zufallsheld 36 minutes ago
        Without open-source, there'd be no macOS.. So good thing, it exists.
      • homarp 49 minutes ago
        which is why everyone runs docker on mac, to get shit done.
  • uniclaude 29 minutes ago
    Seeing this the day all major closed LLMs went offline is quite the reminder of how valuable open source can be.
  • jon9544hn 1 hour ago
    Here’s the link (K2)[https://ifm.ai/k2/] as the originally linked link is a login url.
  • prometheus1992 17 minutes ago
    Nice! can't wait to add these in my local stack and try them out.
  • mmastrac 40 minutes ago
    The comparisons with other models here are odd.. the other models change depending on the task. It would be far more useful to at least compare against the more recent open models (DS4Flash/GLM53Flash/Qwen38).
  • piinbinary 1 hour ago
    A bit off topic, but I think I'm starting to get model fatigue. These come out 10x faster than new Javascript frameworks were coming out 10 years ago (at least new models are far easier to adopt).
    • wuhhh 1 hour ago
      At least this one can claim being fully open to differentiate it
    • kelseyfrog 1 hour ago
      Just wait until RSI gains enough traction. We'll be compute-limited rather than labor-limited.
  • kamranjon 1 hour ago
    it's funny that the tagline is Radically Open, but you're immediately hit with http login - maybe this was the wrong link?
    • sottol 1 hour ago
      It's not the blog post, but there's some info here:

      https://ifm.ai/k2/

      375 A23B, 36 A4B, 32B, 7B, 3.7B, 0.9B variants.

      > 32B: Ranking among the top models in its class, 32B is our most powerful dense model, balancing capability, adaptability, and local deployability.

      > 7B: The industry’s best-performing model under 10B combines strong software engineering and expert knowledge in a package small enough to run on a phone.

    • gs17 1 hour ago
      https://ifm.ai/k2/ seems to work for me.
  • sottol 1 hour ago
  • afzalive 50 minutes ago
    Not to be confused with Kimi K2. Out of all the names they could've used, they picked one that would be confusing.
    • bee_rider 29 minutes ago
      I kind of assumed all the K2 names were puns. K2 is quite tall, so to get to the top of it you have to be really good at hill climbing. Anyway it’s a pretty well known mountain so I don’t think anyone can call dibs on it.
  • luckydata 1 hour ago
    both repositories for pre-training and post-training are actually empty... someone might have jumped the gun on the release.