The Miller Principle (2007)

(puredanger.github.io)

39 points | by FelipeCortez 4 days ago

19 comments

  • ozgrakkurt 7 minutes ago
    This is a modern epidemic.

    Everything has to be fast like a youtube short now.

    People find wrestling with LLM to do something simple is better than reading a book that will teach them 10x the information in a linear way.

    Anything deep takes too much time and is too expensive.

    It is stupid to make a deeply tough-ought product that works well. You should create 50 useless garbage and see what grabs peoples attention.

    Everyone should create 50 garbage things instead of everyone doing something actually useful.

  • sebastianconcpt 8 minutes ago
    This signals something that is happening somehow predictably due to the increasing abundance of code. It exponentially grows the surface offered for understanding (text as in comments, docs etc) and our attention bandwidth, well, is not exponentially growing, so...
  • sdevonoes 1 hour ago
    I think this is more true now than ever. Before LLMs, when someone came up with an ADR/RFC/etc you had to read it because you had to approve it or reject it. People were putting effort and, yeah, you could use them in your next perf. review to gain extra points. You could easily distinguish well written docs from the crap (that also made the job of reviewing them easie)

    Nowadays everyone can generate a 20-page RFC/ADR and even though you can tell if they are LLM generated, you cannot easily reject them based on that factor only. So here we are spending hours reading something the author spent 5 min. to generate (and barely knows what’s about).

    Same goes for documentation, PRs, PRs comments…

    • jodrellblank 17 minutes ago
      Watching the Artemis II splashdown and following media event, I’m suspicious that a woman from TechTalk Media read out some LLM blurb instead of asking a question; I can’t prove it, but I can almost hear the em-dash in:

      "What you have done this week is remind the people of Earth that wonder is worth chasing. That curiosity is the most human thing we have. You didn't just test a spacecraft -- you tested mankind's potential...”

    • ghgr 40 minutes ago
      As a counterexample, thanks to LLMs many long-form articles that get posted with clickbaity (but devoid of content) headlines that I would have ignored otherwise now get "read" (albeit indirectly, with the prompt "Summarize the insights of the article $ARTICLE_URL in an academic, dry, technical and information-dense way")
      • eru 36 minutes ago
        I notice that with YouTube videos.
  • torben-friis 1 hour ago
    I wish this was the case. Then we wouldn't have a minority of us deeply frustrated :)

    'Thanks for the doc, let's set a meeting' (implied: so you can read the doc aloud to us ) is the bane of my existence.

  • comrade1234 1 hour ago
    Despite using an ai while programming I still have open Java doc and other api documents and find them very useful as the ai often gives code based on old apis instead of what I'm actually using. So I do read those documents.

    But also, I have a somewhat mentally ill (as in he takes medication for it) coworker that sends rambling extra-long emails, often all one paragraph. If I can't figure out what he's asking by reading the first couple and last couple of sentences I ask him to summarize it with bullet pouts and it actually works. Lol.

  • taffydavid 1 hour ago
    I read this entire post and all the comments this disproving the Miller principle
    • armchairhacker 1 hour ago

          This principle applies to the following:
      
          - User documentation
          - Specifications
          - Code comments
          - Any text on a user interface
          - Any email longer than one line
      
      Not blog posts or comments. Ironic
      • taffydavid 1 hour ago
        Damn, I guess I didn't read it closely enough
        • sebastianconcpt 42 minutes ago
          Proved that read is not causation of understanding but mere correlation.

          So if the read of the Miller principle is interpreted as read+understanding (it should) an interesting deeper discussion can happen.

          It can be invoked with a way more dramatic "None understands anything"

  • coopykins 1 hour ago
    It's one of the main things I learned when working as tech support and I talked with users all day. Nobody reads anything.
    • funnybeam 51 minutes ago
      I used to refer to the helpdesk as the reading desk - “Hello, you’re through to the IT Helpdesk, what can i read for you today?”
  • hamdouni 1 hour ago
    Yeah, i'm also surprised people just read post title and jump to conclusions ...
  • ekjhgkejhgk 38 minutes ago
    Damn, this is thin content even for HN.

    Anyway, this is just projection. The Miller principle really should be "Miller doesn't read anything". I read plenty.

  • Animats 1 hour ago
    The LLMs read everything.
    • krona 1 hour ago
      It doesn't mean they're paying attention.
    • formerly_proven 1 hour ago
      Only because they are architecturally unable to not read something.
  • stevage 1 hour ago
    Should probably be "The Miller Principle (2007)"
  • fmajid 33 minutes ago
    Write-only memory
  • realaleris149 1 hour ago
    The agents will read them
  • smitty1e 2 hours ago
    I have found much value in reading the python and sqlite documentation. The Arch wiki is another reliable source.

    Good documentation is hard.

    • simultsop 1 hour ago
      I don't know. Under pressure and stress all docs are ugly.
    • Akcium 1 hour ago
      I would love to answer your comment but I didn't read it :P
  • spiderfarmer 1 hour ago
    The Laravel documentation is GREAT when you're getting started. Every chapter starts by answering the very question you might ask yourself if you're going through it top to bottom.

    I'm a one-man-band so if I write code comments, I write them for future me because up to this point he has been very grateful. Creating API documentation is also easy if you can generate it based on the comments in your code.

    Maybe rename it the Filler principle. Nobody reads mindless comments that are 'filler'.

  • makach 1 hour ago
    ..and emails
    • stevage 1 hour ago
      > Any email longer than one line

      it's in there

    • sarreph 41 minutes ago
      The irony.
  • timrobinson33 39 minutes ago
    tl;dr