17 comments

  • adsharma 7 hours ago
    There are 25 graph databases all going me too in the AI/LLM driven cycle.

    Writing it in Rust gets visibility because of the popularity of the language on HN.

    Here's why we are not doing it for LadybugDB.

    Would love to explore a more gradual/incremental path.

    Also focusing on just one query language: strongly typed cypher.

    https://github.com/LadybugDB/ladybug/discussions/141

  • lmeyerov 2 hours ago
    Speaking of embeddable, we just announced cypher syntax for gfql, so the first OSS CPU/GPU cypher query engine you can use on dataframes

    Typically used with scaleout DBs like databricks & splunk for analytical apps: security/fraud/event/social data analysis pipelines, ML+AI embedding & enrichment pipelines, etc. We originally built it for the compute-tier gap here to help Graphistry users making embeddable interactive GPU graph viz apps and dashboards and not wanting to add an external graph DB phase into their interactive analytics flows.

    Single GPU can do 1B+ edges/s, no need for a DB install, and can work straight on your dataframes / apache arrow / parquet: https://pygraphistry.readthedocs.io/en/latest/gfql/benchmark...

    We took a multilayer approach to the GPU & vectorization acceleration, including a more parallelism-friendly core algorithm. This makes fancy features pay-as-you-go vs dragging everything down as in most columnar engines that are appearing. Our vectorized core conforms to over half of TCK already, and we are working to add trickier bits on different layers now that flow is established.

    The core GFQL engine has been in production for a year or two now with a lot of analyst teams around the world (NATO, banks, US gov, ...) because it is part of Graphistry. The open-source cypher support is us starting to make it easy for others to directly use as well, including LLMs :)

  • foota 56 minutes ago
    I added a super cheap and bad embedding database in a project that allows the agent to call a tool for searching all the content it's built, it seems to work pretty well! This way the agent doesn't need to call a bunch of list tools (which I was worried would introduce lost of data to the context), and can find things based on fuzzy search.
  • Aurornis 7 hours ago
    Does anyone have any experience with this DB? Or context about where it came from?

    From the commit history it's obvious that this is an AI coded project. It was started a few months ago, 99% of commits are from 1 contributor, and that 1 contributor has some times committed 100,000 lines of code per week. (EDIT: 200,000 lines of code in the first week)

    I'm not anti-LLM, but I've done enough AI coding to know that one person submitting 100,000 lines of code a week is not doing deep thought and review on the AI output. I also know from experience that letting AI code the majority of a complex project leads to something very fragile, overly complicated, and not well thought out. I've been burned enough times by investigating projects that turned out to be AI slop with polished landing pages. In some cases the claimed benchmarks were improperly run or just hallucinated by the AI.

    So is anyone actually using this? Or is this someone's personal experiment in building a resume portfolio project by letting AI run against a problem for a few months?

    • jandrewrogers 6 hours ago
      That is a lot of code for what appears to be a vanilla graph database with a conventional architecture. The thing I would be cautious about is that graph database engines in particular are known for hiding many sharp edges without a lot of subtle and sophisticated design. It isn't obvious that the necessary level of attention to detail has been paid here.
      • adsharma 6 hours ago
        Are you talking about Andy Pavlo bet here?

        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29737326

        Kuzu folks took some of these discussions and implemented them. SIP, ASP joins, factorized joins and WCOJ.

        Internally it's structured very similar to DuckDB, except for the differences noted above.

        DuckDB 1.5 implemented sideways information passing (SIP). And LadybugDB is bringing in support for DuckDB node tables.

        So the idea that graph databases have shaky internals stems primarily from pre 2021 incumbents.

        4 more years to go to 2030!

        • jandrewrogers 5 hours ago
          I wasn't referring to the Pavlo bet but I would make the same one! Poor algorithm and architecture scalability is a serious bottleneck. I was part of a research program working on the fundamental computer science of high-scale graph databases ~15 years ago. Even back then we could show that the architectures you mention couldn't scale even in theory. Just about everyone has been re-hashing the same basic design for decades.

          As I like to point out, for two decades DARPA has offered to pay many millions of dollars to anyone who can demonstrate a graph database that can handle a sparse trillion-edge graph. That data model easily fits on a single machine. No one has been able to claim the money.

          Inexplicably, major advances in this area 15-20 years ago under the auspices of government programs never bled into the academic literature even though it materially improved the situation. (This case is the best example I've seen of obviously valuable advanced research that became lost for mundane reasons, which is pretty wild if you think about it.)

          • adsharma 3 hours ago
            > many millions of dollars to anyone who can demonstrate a graph database that can handle a sparse trillion-edge graph.

            I wonder why no one has claimed it. It's possible to compress large graphs to 1 byte per edge via Graph reordering techniques. So a trillion scale graph becomes 1TB, which can fit into high end machines.

            Obviously it won't handle high write rates and mutations well. But with Apache Arrow based compression, it's certainly possible to handle read-only and read-mostly graphs.

            Also the single machine constraint feels artificial. For any columnar database written in the last 5 years, implementing object store support is tablestakes.

            • jandrewrogers 56 minutes ago
              Achieving adequate performance at 1T edges in one aspect requires severe tradeoffs in other aspects, making every implementation impractical at that scale. You touched on a couple of the key issues when I was working in this domain.

              There is no single machine constraint, just the observation that we routinely run non-graph databases at similar scale on single machines without issue. It doesn't scale on in-memory supercomputers either, so the hardware details are unrelated to the problem:

              - Graph database with good query performance typically has terrible write performance. It doesn't matter how fast queries are if it takes too long to get data into the system. At this scale there can be no secondary indexing structures into the graph; you need a graph cutting algorithm efficient for both scalable writes and join recursion. This was solved.

              - Graph workloads break cache replacement algorithms for well-understood theory reasons. Avoiding disk just removes one layer of broken caching among many but doesn't address the abstract purpose for which a cache exists. This is why in-memory systems still scale poorly. We've known how to solve this in theory since at least the 1980s. The caveat is it is surprisingly difficult to fully reduce to practice in software, especially at scale, so no one really has. This is a work in progress.

              - Most implementations use global synchronization barriers when parallelizing algorithms such as BFS, which greatly increases resource consumption while throttling hardware scalability and performance. My contribution to research was actually in this area: I discovered a way to efficiently use error correction algorithms to elide the barriers. I think there is room to make this even better but I don't think anyone has worked on it since.

              The pathological cache replacement behavior is the real killer here. It is what is left even if you don't care about write performance or parallelization.

              I haven't worked in this area for many years but I do keep tabs on new graph databases to see if someone is exploiting that prior R&D, even if developed independently.

          • rossjudson 1 hour ago
            I guess it all depends on the meaning of the word "handle", and what the use cases are.
        • adsharma 5 hours ago
          Source: https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/08/great_graph_debate_we...

          > There are some additional optimizations that are specific to graphs that a relational DBMS needs to incorporate: [...]

          This is essentially what Kuzu implemented and DuckDB tried to implement (DuckPGQ), without touching relational storage.

          The jury is out on which one is a better approach.

      • justonceokay 6 hours ago
        Yes a graph database will happily lead you down a n^3 (or worse!) path when trying to query for a single relation if you are not wise about your indexes, etc.
        • cluckindan 4 hours ago
          That sounds like a ”graph” DB which implements edges as separate tables, like building a graph in a standard SQL RDB.

          If you wish to avoid that particular caveat, look for a graph DB which materializes edges within vertices/nodes. The obvious caveat there is that the edges are not normalized, which may or may not be an issue for your particulat application.

        • adsharma 6 hours ago
          Are you talking about the query plan for scanning the rel table? Kuzu used a hash index and a join.

          Trying to make it optional.

          Try

          explain match (a)-[b]->(c) return a.rowid, b.rowid, c.rowid;

      • stult 2 hours ago
        It certainly does seem problematic to have a graph database hiding edges, sharp or not
    • gdotv 6 hours ago
      Agreed, there's been a literal explosion in the last 3 months of new graph databases coded from scratch, clearly largely LLM assisted. I'm having to keep track of the industry quite a bit to decide what to add support for on https://gdotv.com and frankly these days it's getting tedious.
      • piyh 5 hours ago
        I'm turning off my brain and using neo4j
        • gdotv 45 minutes ago
          proof that Neo4j won the popularity contest!
        • UltraSane 3 hours ago
          Neo4j is pretty nice.
      • aorth 4 hours ago
        Figurative!
    • ozgrakkurt 4 hours ago
      Using a LLM coded database sounds like hell considering even major databases can have some rough edges and be painful to use.
    • hrmtst93837 3 hours ago
      Six figures a week is a giant red flag. That kind of commit log usually means codegen slop or bulk reformatting, and even if some of it works I wouldn't trust the design, test coverage, or long-term maintenance story enough to put that DB anywhere near prod.
    • arthurjean 5 hours ago
      Sounds about right for someone who ships fast and iterates. 54 days for a v0 that probably needs refactoring isn't that crazy if the dev has a real DB background. We've all seen open source projects drag on for 3 years without shipping anything, that's not necessarily better
      • Aurornis 3 hours ago
        200,000 lines of code on week 1 is not a sign of a quality codebase with careful thought put into it.

        > We've all seen open source projects drag on for 3 years without shipping anything, that's not necessarily better

        There are more options than “never ship anything” and “use AI to slip 200,000 lines of code into a codebase”

      • TheJord 1 hour ago
        shipping fast matters a lot less than shipping something you actually understand. 200k lines in a week means nobody knows what's in there, including the author. that's not a codebase, it's a liability
  • natdempk 4 hours ago
    Serious question: are there any actually good and useful graph databases that people would trust in production at reasonable scale and are available as a vendor or as open source? eg. not Meta's TAO
    • cjlm 4 hours ago
      Serious answer: limiting to just Open Source: JanusGraph, DGraph, Apache AGE, HugeGraph, MemGraph and ArcadeDB all meet that criteria.
      • adsharma 3 hours ago
        What is open source and what is a graph database are both hotly debated topics.

        Author of ArcadeDB critiques many nominally open source licenses here:

        https://www.linkedin.com/posts/garulli_why-arcadedb-will-nev...

        What is a graph database is also relevant:

          - Does it need index free adjacency?
          - Does it need to implement compressed sparse rows?
          - Does it need to implement ACID?
          - Does translating Cypher to SQL count as a graph database?
    • gdotv 1 hour ago
      plenty of those - I've had to work with dozens of different graph databases integrating them on https://gdotv.com, save for maybe 1-2 exceptions in the list of supported databases on our website, they're all production ready and either backed by a vendor or open-source (or sometimes both, e.g. Apache AGE for Azure PostgreSQL). There are some technologies that have been around for a long time but really flying under the radar, despite being used a lot in enterprise (e.g. JanusGraph).
    • szarnyasg 3 hours ago
      That's a difficult question and I would like to avoid giving a direct answer (because I co-lead a nonprofit benchmarking graph databases) but even knowing what you need for a graph database can be a tricky decision. See my FOSDEM 2025 talk, where I tried to make sense of the field:

      https://archive.fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5...

    • adsharma 3 hours ago
      What people perceive as "Facebook production graph" is not just TAO. There is an ecosystem around it and I wrote one piece of it.

      Full history here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/brief-history-graphs-facebook...

    • pphysch 4 hours ago
      Yeah: Postgres, etc.

      When you actually need to run graph algorithms against your relational data, you export the subset of that data into something like Grafeo (embedded mode is a big plus here) and run your analysis.

      • adsharma 3 hours ago
        That importing is expensive and prevents you from handling billion scale graphs.

        It's possible to run cypher against duckdb (soon postgres as well via duckdb's postgres extension) without having to import anything. That's a game changer when everything is in the same process.

  • satvikpendem 7 hours ago
    There seem to be a lot of these, how does it compare to Helix DB for example? Also, why would you ever want to query a database with GraphQL, for which it was explicitly not made for that purpose?
  • cjlm 4 hours ago
    Overwhelmed by the sheer number of graph databases? I released a new site this week that lists and categorises them. https://gdb-engines.com
    • dbacar 3 hours ago
      Did you generate the list using an LLM?
      • cjlm 2 hours ago
        I was inspired by https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.24758 and collated their assessment into a table and then just kept adding databases :)

        Claude helped a lot but it's all reviewed and curated by me.

  • mark_l_watson 3 hours ago
    I just spent an hour with Grafeo, trying to also get the associated library grafeo_langchain working with a local Ollama model. Mixed results. I really like the Python Kuzu graph database, still use it even though the developers no longer support it.
  • brunoborges 1 hour ago
    Why is everything "... built in Rust" trending so easily on HN?
    • mattvr 52 minutes ago
      It implies high performance, reliability, and a higher degree of mastery of the developer.

      (Which may not all be true, but perhaps moreso than your average project)

    • IshKebab 1 hour ago
      Because Rust is an excellent language that pushes you into the "pit of success", and consequently software written in Rust tends to be fast, robust and easy to deploy.

      There's no big mystery. No conspiracy or organised evangelism. Rust is just really good.

  • xlii 2 hours ago
    I wonder if people are using (or intend to use) vibe-coded projects like the one linked.

    I mean - I understand, some people have fun looking at new tech no matter the source, but my question is is there a person who would be designated to pick a GraphQL in language and would ignore all the LLM flags and put it in production.

  • cluckindan 5 hours ago
    The d:Document syntax looks so happy!
  • OtomotO 5 hours ago
    Interesting... Need to check how this differs from agdb, with which I had some success for a sideproject in the past.

    https://github.com/agnesoft/agdb

    Ah, yeah, a different query language.

  • nexxuz 5 hours ago
    I was ready to learn more about this but I saw "written in Rust" and I literally rolled my eyes and said never mind.
    • ComputerGuru 4 hours ago
      I think "written by genAI" should be a bigger turnoff than "written in Rust".
      • andriy_koval 4 hours ago
        alternative opinion:

        * it is possible to write high quality software using GenAI

        * not using GenAI could mean project won't be competitive in current landscape

        • quantumHazer 4 hours ago
          > not using GenAI could mean project won't be competitive in current landscape

          why? this is false in my opinion, iterating fast is not a good indicator of quality nor competitiveness

          • andriy_koval 1 hour ago
            iterating fast over quality (e.g. refactoring, tests coverage, benchmarks, documentation, trying new nontrivial ideas) is a good indicator of quality.
        • Aurornis 3 hours ago
          > * it is possible to write high quality software using GenAI

          From examine this codebase it doesn’t appear to be written carefully with AI.

          It looks like code that was promoted into existence as fast as possible.

          • andriy_koval 1 hour ago
            sure, there are bad genAI projects and there are good genAI projects. You can remove genAI term from previous sentence.
    • chuckadams 4 hours ago
      Too bad you don't do the same for commenting on HN.
  • measurablefunc 6 hours ago
    This looks like another avant-garde "art" project.
  • takahitoyoneda 4 hours ago
    [dead]
  • aplomb1026 5 hours ago
    [dead]